8 Jul 2024 Interview with Bhakti Vighna Vinasa Narasimha Swami
Interviewer: How do you personally interpret the concept of Founder-Acharya within your preaching and in association?
BVV Narasimha Swami: Prabhupada is the founder. Everything he gave us is of fundamental importance. We use Srila Prabhupada’s books, we stick to Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, and generally we quote Srila Prabhupada as the example for others, and generally people are receptive and appreciate and respect Prabhupada. So, you may see the Founder Acarya in that way. Somebody may see the Founder Acarya as the Gaudiya Math people, they say Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati is the founder Acarya. Other people could say Bhaktivinoda Thakura is the founder Acarya. You could take it back and back and go back to Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the founder Acarya. But we’re following Srila Prabhupada, in the present times. We use Srila Prabhupada’s books, we use Srila Prabhupada’s slogan for the society, the name of the society, everything came from Prabhupada. So, we’re generally faithful to Srila Prabhupada, to everything which he taught us, and I think that’s generally the policy among the devotees in ISKCON. If we tell them what Prabhupada said, then they will respect that as being the standard.
Interviewer: But you are acknowledging that there are within ISKCON deviations concerning this principle?
BVV Narasimha Swami: Like we had in the beginning when Prabhupada left the world. You could say you had the zonal Acaryas, you had the zonal Acaryas, and then when we first started the ISKCON disciple course, there were some people, they objected to it, they thought this is promoting Ridvikism, but gradually they come to accept it. You know, we try to encourage people that you should have not only just one Diksa guru, but you need also Siksa gurus, and it’s not only the Diksa guru which is important, but it’s the Siksa which is more important, and the ultimate Siksa is coming from Srila Prabhupada, with the founder Acarya. And I point out to people that Srila Prabhupada is the Siksa guru for everyone.
Interviewer: So is it by following Srila Prabhupada, Siksa guru, Prabhupada, Siksa, we go back to Godhead?
Well, go back to… wherever Prabhupada goes, you go with Prabhupada. You know, we want to be with… we’re following Srila Prabhupada, but put everything on Srila Prabhupada, we want to follow him. You know, he’s our example of devotion, if Prabhupada’s going back to Godhead, then yes, we’d like to be with Prabhupada and go back to Godhead. That’s a nice devotion Follow the guru. So he’s our guru, he’s our life and soul.
Interviewer:And do you see that sometimes the attention is too much, not on Prabhupada, but on some charismatic leader or…
BVV Narasimha Swami: Well, it may be there, but the charismatic leader also is a staunch devotee of Prabhupada. You know, the staunch… although he may have a lot of fanatic followers, that he himself is devoted to Prabhupada. And he’s doing everything for Prabhupada. So I think it works itself out, you know, that the people who are following their charismatic guru, that if their charismatic guru is on par, is on line, he’ll bring them to Prabhupada. I see it like that. You know, I won’t mention any names, but of course we do have some charismatic gurus, and they have a lot of disciples. And generally, you know, they’re very loyal to Prabhupada. They’ll follow everything Prabhupada says. So they bring them to Prabhupada. They have to be transparent. What can you say? I mean, people are like that. They want to have somebody that they’re attracted by this charismatic guru, and they have that faith in the charismatic guru. What can you do, you know? You try…The charismatic guru, he has to bring them to Prabhupada. That’s all. That’s all there is to it. And generally, they’ll try to do like that.
Interviewer: And what we could do to improve those followers, to increase their relationship with Prabhupada, besides their relationship with their guru. Because if the guru leaves, and those followers don’t have that profound relationship with Srila Prabhupada, it might affect their spiritual life.
BVV Narasimha Swami: Well, that’s why I say it’s very important that people have to understand the need of the ISKCON disciple course, which points out the purpose of initiation is to connect them to Srila Prabhupada. And I think this is something which has to be stressed, you know, has to be taught again and again. You know, these things, these points which are there in the ISKCON disciple course, I think they’re very fundamentally important. I think they can help to improve the quality of the initiated devotees. Unfortunately, people often take the course and they don’t take it very seriously. They simply memorize some things and then forget it. But they have to be reminded again and again. They have to hear.
Interviewer:So how would you think that could be done by reminding it or maybe..?
BVV Narasimha Swami: Well, the people who are teaching, the people who are giving classes, the people who are giving the seminars and so on, they have to teach these things. You know, we do have that problem that we give too much importance to diksa and not enough to siksa. We give so much importance to the initiation guru rather than to the siksa guru. And people even identify themselves as, you know, their diksa guru. They may have hardly ever had any association with their diksa guru. But still they will be identified in that way. So we overemphasize the diksa. We need to…We have to constantly remind people. And we have to consider what is more important in ISKCON. Is it just initiating people or is it getting people to chant Hare Krsna and understand the philosophy? It’s not just getting people initiated. But we have to get people to understand the philosophy and we have to get them to understand the importance of chanting the holy name That’s my opinion. Okay?
Interviewer:Thank you, Maharaj. It’s very clear. And I heard you have a preaching in China? How is it in China with followers? Are they practicing in seclusion or…They’re practicing in their homes.
BVV Narasimha Swami: Yes. In their homes, yes. Yeah. We don’t have any centers there but people practice in their homes. And there also we do have problems with groupism. Yes. That’s one of the problems that is created because we are not in line with the GBC or with this understanding that Prabhupada is the guru of everybody. We try. We try and remind them and remind them. But people are often very neophyte. Very neophyte and very…People want to get initiated and the guru and everything. It’s a lot of groupism. Follow the friends. They don’t make their own decisions so much.
Interviewer: How large is this group in China of devotees?
BVV Narasimha Swami: How large? But not very large. We don’t have a lot of people. Maybe a thousand devotees in the whole country. Maybe. It’s of course difficult. You don’t have Ratha Yatra festivals. We don’t have temples.Thirty years. Forty years preaching there. Forty years before we got there. And, you know, we lose a lot of people. People go to Narayana Maharaja. People go to Ridvigism. We have everything there. We have Gaudiya Math. So these things are there everywhere. You bring people in, they go away. Some other place. Somebody else comes along. Some other teacher. Some other philosophy. These problems are everywhere.
Interviewer: What steps does ISKCON take to educate its members and followers about the significance of the founder Acharya in the context of the organization’s mission and goals?
BVV Narasimha Swami: I don’t know about in terms of the context of the organizers. Organization’s mission and goals. Missions and goals. I’m inclined to think that we educate people about these things through the ISKCON disciple course. Definitely there are other things there in the course. Not just only on Srila Prabhupada. Anyway, you have Sureshvara presenting his thing. That’s all on Prabhupada. He’s trying to make an additional course to the guru disciple course about Srila Prabhupada’s unique position. It’s a very valuable seminar. Yes, absolutely. Spiritual teachers can encourage their disciples to attend these courses. Yes. So, if it would be like a recommendation that the disciples would be better off following the course. So, yes, the GBC can authorize it, but just like a disciple course, you know, it’s authorized, but people don’t take it very seriously. Okay. And similarly, just because the GBC authorized something, it doesn’t mean everybody will immediately do the thing. That’s true.
Interviewer: By Temple Presidents, if somebody needs recommendation for initiation, this course is being given?
BVV Narasimha Swami: Recommendations can also be, there could be a lot of prejudice involved, personal dealings and so on. Yes, of course. It’s not a straightforward issu. Yes. Again, having people giving initiation and recommendations, it’s a very tricky, messy subject. Are you going to recommend somebody. Are you ready to take the karma for them? No, no, no, no. People are not willing. They want them to get initiated, but they’re not ready to take any karma. But they come, they give them to the guru and expect a spiritual master to initiate them. And if we don’t initiate them, then they go some other place to go to Gaudiya Mata and get initiation there. Yes. And you lose them. So it’s a problem. It’s an issue. What to do? Take a risk. Of course. Usually take a risk because we offer the disciple to Prabhupada. He’s becoming a member of Prabhupada’s society. Initiation is connecting him to Prabhupada. So it’s, again, the transparency of the guru. The guru is not thinking he’s my disciple. But he’s simply doing a service on behalf of Srila Prabhupada to bring someone into Krishna consciousness. So if the spiritual teacher has that kind of mood, then that can definitely be given to his disciples. To encourage them to connect to Prabhupada.
Interviewer: And this groupism you talked about, what would you think is a way to prevent that?
BVV Narasimha Swami: Well, again, it’s education, trying to educate people. But not everybody is willing. Yeah. You know, it depends a lot on the devotees themselves. I mean, you can try yourself to educate people and to tell people how it should be. But they just say, oh, yes, yes And then go away and do something else. And then they don’t take it always very seriously. It’s a very difficult thing to try to get through to people the actual process of connecting to the spiritual master, the procedures of initiation, how it should be done, but how it usually gets done. We try to connect people to Prabhupada. Generally, most spiritual masters, they feel that they’re initiating on behalf of Prabhupada. They’re bringing people into the Krishna consciousness movement. They’re not thinking, he’s my property, he’s mine. No, we bring them to engage them in the service of Srila Prabhupada. Of course, it’s a different opinion. Some people may say, oh, this is Rig Vekasam, but this is how it is in the Sri Sampradaya. Ramanujas, you know, the people who get initiation, they will all put the name, they’ll put Ramanuja Das. They connect themselves with the founder, a child. Yes. In a similar manner, we are connecting ourselves with Srila Prabhupada. Now, some, the Gaudiya Mata, they’re connected to Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati. There’s no difference, really. Well, there is some difference, of course There is some difference. The Gaudiya Mata, how they do things and how we do things, there’s a difference, certainly. There’s a difference. Prabhupada put much more importance on our hearing and chanting and studying Bhagavad Gita. And you go to, if you look at the Gaudiya Mata, they’re on a different wavelength, you know. Their program is more, you know, Gopi Bhava and Jiva Dharma, these kind of books. They don’t, they don’t have the program like what we, they consider study of the Bhagavad Gita for neophytes. So, they think like that. And they don’t give a great importance to chanting 16 rounds. They just say, oh yes, we’ll chant. And they’ll encourage people to chant. And it doesn’t matter how much they’re chanting, you know, they’ll give them initiation. But we’re more strict. You know, we insist upon 16 rounds. And we insist upon following the four principles for at least, you know, should be a year. They follow the principles and they chant for at least a year. We try to establish some strictness and some real purity in their sadhana. Of course, people may lie, people may cheat. They may lie to me or they may lie to gurus. But they cannot cheat Krishna. They can cheat themselves Actually, that’s what happens. They cheat themselves. So, people who do like that, they don’t stay very long in Krishna consciousness. And after some, they’ll easily go away. Because they’re not honest, they’re not straightforward. So, after some time, they’ll just give up and go away. So, it takes time to work things out.
Interviewer:How does ISKCON ensure that the vision and legacy of the founder Acharya continues to guide the organization’s growth and development in the future?
BVV Narasimha Swami: Well, by continuing to distribute Srila Prabhupada’s books. Certainly, Srila Prabhupada’s books are of primary importance. And I think pretty much that goes on. You know, Prabhupada’s books are used everywhere. The Srimad Bhagavatam, the Caitanya-caritamrita, Bhagavad Gita, the basic books over Krishna consciousness movement. I think that’s the main thing. The vision and legacy of Prabhupada is there. He said, I will live forever by my books. So, by distributing Prabhupada’s books, by keeping Prabhupada’s books in a central place and using Prabhupada’s books for our classes and for our preaching, not going off track, I think that’s important. Books are the basis. And Prabhupada, of course, knew these books are going to be very important in the future. You know, nobody else has got books like us. God, you might have books like us. We’ve got some books, but nothing like what we have. I heard that we have distributed 600 million books, Srila Prabhupada. Yeah, around the world. 600 million.
Interviewer: How does ISKCON reconcile the role of the Founder Acharya with the need for contemporary relevance and adaptability without compromising fidelity?
BVV Narasimha Swami: That’s a difficult one. Contemporary relevance and adaptability without compromising fidelity. What Prabhupada said, take some intelligence, right? To adjust the details. To adjust the details, take some intelligence. We’re very cautious about these things. The relevance and adaptability without compromising fidelity. Yeah, we have to be careful. Jayadvaita Swami Maharaj published his book on kirtan standards. Describing Prabhupada’s standards in kirtan. And pointing out many different improper manners of having kirtan. That’s all. Not everybody appreciates Maharaj’s opinion, but Maharaj felt badly about it. And he took time out to write the book and publish it and distribute it. And give copies out. I got a copy. I don’t have it with me, but I got a copy. So he discusses about how we’re compromising a lot on Prabhupada’s standards. Some people may feel it’s not relevant or we have to adjust to the times. That’s difficult. I think it’s also the emphasis on what is important. Some maybe think we should emphasize more on how we can attract new people. And then find all kinds of ways which people will be attracted to our movement. By for example yoga classes. Astrology classes. Psychology classes. I don’t see that these kind of things make a lot of devotees. They might bring friends. But I haven’t seen that really brought in a lot of devotees. Maybe they bring in money. I definitely thought that there’s financial gain in these things. But I don’t see a lot of spiritual gain. A lot of spiritual improvement from these courses. They’re like, you know, we say indirect preaching. Very dangerous. Sometimes you can lose more devotees than you make. And get into these things. So it has to be done with great caution. So maybe sometimes also Prabhupada is not mentioned because they feel it’s too… People would not feel comfortable with it. Yeah, they may feel. They don’t feel connected to Prabhupada. But if one has faith in Prabhupada and he mentions Prabhupada. Then it gives other people a chance to get connected to Prabhupada. You’re starting to connect. Bring people in. Let them know who is Prabhupada. People come to Krishna consciousness. They want a guru. The first guru they should get is Prabhupada. I think that I try to encourage that point. As much as possible I want new people coming to Krishna consciousness. Take shelter of Prabhupada. In the very beginning. From the start. Take shelter of Prabhupada. Feel the connection to Prabhupada. That makes everything a lot easier. It’s like a fundamental for spiritual life. You have a good understanding about Prabhupada’s position. Very important. Very important. Prabhupada seminars. Give seminars about Prabhupada. Talk bout Prabhupada. Read the different examples. There are so many nice books written by people who had association with Prabhupada. And even people who didn’t have association.
About Bhakti Vighna Vinasa Narasimha Swami
BVV Narasimha Swami initiated by Srila Prabhupada in London in 1971. A year later he received second initiation. He has been preaching for over last twenty five years in Asian countries such as India, Philippines, China, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia and Thailand. Through his years of preaching he has given countless souls practical guidance and deep inspiration. Taking sannyasa in Mayapur in 1994 from Tamal Krishna Goswami did not mean much of a change in his lifestyle, since Maharaja has always been strict in his sadhana.