Interviewer: How does educating the devotees about Srila Prabhupada’s role as Founder-Acharya strengthen their commitment to the varnashrama projects?
Urmila D.D.: By showing that Srila Prabhupada wanted it, but that’s not enough. Most devotees, in my experience, don’t understand what varnashrama is. Their idea of it is impractical and skewed. So even if they agree with it in theory, they can’t implement it properly.
Interviewer: What challenges have arisen in past farm projects that deviated from recognising Srila Prabhupada as the sole Founder-Acharya, particularly about their alignment with varnashrama principles?
Urmila D.D.: One purpose of ISKCON is a simpler, more natural life. Prabhupada wanted us to revive cottage industries and care for cows—part of his vision of varnashrama. But varnashrama is broader than just farm communities. Prabhupada said, “I have given the ideas, now you give the shape.” That’s what we tried to do in career dharma—follow his instructions and give it shape.
We have a chapter in the book called Vision for a Whole Society. The third part explores what a society would look like if it followed varna and dharma. When Prabhupada said 50% of the work is still unfinished, he was referring to establishing varnashrama. But first, we have to understand what it is. Our farm projects have mostly been communes, which are not part of varnashrama. A farm commune may be necessary in the early stages of a movement, like Israel’s initial kibbutzim, but that model was temporary and not the long-term vision.
Grihasthas generally want to own property, and vaishyas run independent farms or businesses. Nowhere in shastra or Srila Prabhupada’s instructions do kshatriyas run businesses or farms—Nanda Maharaja paid taxes to Kamsa; he didn’t work for him. Brahmanas wouldn’t run his farm either. If temple authorities act as kshatriyas overseeing agriculture, that’s not varnashrama. It’s neither shastric nor sustainable. Vaisyas treated like shudras on communal farms often leave—they can’t tolerate that dynamic.
Our goshalas and agriculture are often run by shudras, but not efficiently—they’re expensive and unprofitable. Most temples have a few shudras doing essential maintenance, which is necessary. However, most shudras are meant to have their occupations, like weaving or pottery—what Prabhupada called cottage industries—which we don’t support in temples or farm communities.
Most people will marry—Prabhupada said the vast majority should, especially women. grihasthas have more independence than brahmacaris. You can’t treat vaishyas like shudras or grihasthas like brahmacaris—it doesn’t work. Married people can’t be expected to follow rigid control over every aspect of their lives, including when to have children or where to eat. That kind of system isn’t sustainable or attractive, and it doesn’t reflect a healthy, thoughtful society.
In the seventies, we were told not to cook at home and only eat temple prasadam. That may have made sense when starting a small community, but it doesn’t work when building a broader society. A real community means people owning their homes and land, being encouraged to discover their nature, and working accordingly. If someone is a kshatriya, they could be the mayor of a village where devotees have their agriculture, businesses, cottage industries, and schools.
ISKCON is primarily an institution of worship and education, which makes it a brahminical institution. Its primary purpose is to serve as centres of worship and education, supported by some model communities. A model community cannot be a commune; a commune is not a model for the world.
We train our members to work in the world as devotees and help people in the world become devotees. This includes training not only in brahminical knowledge, but also in Kshatriya, Vaishya, and Shudra roles, as well as for students and families.
The focus is on training in dharma. There are already many places to learn practical skills like carpentry, plumbing, or engineering. What is lacking is training in dharma—understanding Kshatriya dharma, Vaishya dharma—which is something only we offer.
As more people become devotees, we could develop institutions that train in both skills and dharma across all occupations. We would also assist existing institutions in incorporating the principles of varna and ashram, either directly or by guiding others.