26 juin 2024, 16:43 Radhadesh Prahladananda Swami
Interviewer: how do you personally interpret the concept of Founder Acharya within your preaching and in association?
PAS: But as far as I understand, that in order to be part of the parampara, actually part of the parampara, one has to be a transparentvia media to Krishna. So it’s not that everyone who gives initiation is necessarily transparentviamedia, but there are services to help devotees come, get access to the transparentviamedia. So Srila Prabhupada, as he writes in the Bhagavad Gita, that one lady asked, Srila Prabhupada Some lady asked Srila Prabhupada, can you give me a suggestion of which Bhagavad Gita I can read? Prabhupada said, well I can’t actually, even if there’s six or seven hundred different commentaries on the Bhagavad Gita, but none of them touch on the spirit of the Bhagavad Gita. The spirit of the Bhagavad Gita is that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as confirmed by many great personalities such as Shankaracharya, Vyasadeva, etc. Similarly, Krishna is glorified as the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the Brahmasamhita and Srimad Bhagavatam and other Vedic literature. So Arjuna confirms, well, probably Krishna says that if you want to take medicine, then you have to take it according to the direction of the physician. And according to the label on the bottle, you can’t take it just whimsically. So similarly, this knowledge is coming from the Sungod to Vivasvan, to Manu, and then it’s coming to Evam parampara, Praptam. And in order to understand Bhagavad Gita, one has to be a friend and a devotee of Krishna, according to Krishna. Now, if one wants to approach Krishna, the actual spirit of Bhagavad Gita, one has to at least theoretically accept what Krishna is saying. Otherwise, that’s called faith. Otherwise, that’s called submission to faith. Otherwise, it’s a waste of time reading Bhagavad Gita. Similarly, if Prabhupada is in the Parampara and is transparent via media, which is what we consider when we say the founder, Acharya, that the basis of all other teachings has to be based on his teachings. And if we have to understand the validity of what we’re talking about, then we have to refer to Prabhupada’s teachings. Otherwise, we’re just wasting our time. We’re just concocting our own philosophy. Krishna writes in Bhagavad Gita, in 434, the path to spiritual life is undoubtedly difficult. Therefore, one has to approach a bona fide spiritual master in the line of teaching from Krishna himself.Krishna is the original spiritual master, and those in the disciple succession can convey the same message as Krishna, as he spoke originally. Those who think that they can just concoct their own philosophy, they’re just wasting everyone’s time. So similarly, at least theoretically, we should accept Prabhupada as a representative, if we want to derive any benefit from his books or from the movement as it should be. Otherwise, then, once you go somewhere else, one can’t accept that. This movement is specifically meant for understanding how Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, at least theoretically, taking Prabhupada as his representative. So, the main problem I see in our society is that after Śrīla Prabhupāda left, instead of actually considering what Prabhupāda gave us and referring to it, at least what we know he gave us, because it was indicated that he may have said something more, but it wasn’t exactly presented.
Interviewer: Could you clarify this point?
PAS: For example, in 1977, when the zona ācāryas claimed that Prabhupāda appointed them as gurus,
as ācāryas actually, and came up with the zona ācāryas system,
where they were the ācāryas appointed by Śrīla Prabhupāda,
and anyone who took initiation, who was obliged to take initiation from them, etc.
But then when we got the conversation books, then we found out in November 1977,
some officials, government officials, came to Śrīla Prabhupāda.
I believe one of them was the, not the governor, but the prime minister of Mahārāṣṭra.
So they asked to speak to Prabhupāda privately.
Prabhupāda obliged them and allowed them to speak to him privately.
So then, Bhakti Charu Mahārāj left the tape recorder on, to find out what they wanted to say.
And when they came back, Prabhupāda said that they asked him,
who will be the next leader?
And Prabhupāda said, actually, anyone who follows the paramparā, my instructions,
as much as they understand and follow the instructions, they’ll be the next leader.
Not that I’m appointing anyone as the next leader.
He told them, you can also become the next leader if you understand and follow this process,
through my instructions.
So that was overlooked, as if Prabhupāda appointed some people to become
some special personalities within our society.
He was supposed to oversee the rest of the society.
He was passing at times the GBC body.
So that was a misleading.
Interviewer: Is there a transcription of this recording?
PAS: It’s on the vedabase.
So that’s an example.
Now, there may be other things which are more controversial than even that,
but I don’t want to get into that.
But the point is that our philosophy is, as Prabhupāda has given,
is quite straightforward.
That everyone should become a servant to the servants.
That’s why we take initiation.
That even after the acārya in the disciplic succesion disappears,
we remain servants to the servants.
It’s not that we change our identity, and that we assume roles,
and then that becomes our identity.
We always remain simply the servant of the servant.
And therefore, everything that we do should be based upon guru, sādhu and śāstra.
So that’s Founder-acārya, his books are the basis.
And we don’t refer to his books when we make decisions,
either in our personal lives or others’ lives,
and we just mislead people.
And then, of course, the future…
If you want to be in the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, the Prabhupāda’s movement, ISKCON,
you have to accept Prabhupāda’s books and his teachings as an example,
as the basic laws we have to follow.
You can say laws, but…
And if we don’t do that, then we’re really creating another institution.
Another brand, yeah.
So the books of Śrīla Prabhupāda,
they are the main basis for everything which we do in this movement,
without referring to the books.
If we’re doing something which is not in the books,
then it’s something concocted.
It’s not only the books, but also his personal instructions, his personal examples.
And those also may apply to time, place and circumstance.
But even there is a movement within our society
where they claim that Prabhupāda was sometimes correct and sometimes incorrect.
When he was quoted from authority, they claim that he was
actually talking from the transcendental platform.
And when he didn’t quote from authority,
he said things that were politically incorrect or controversial.
Then that was his own personal opinion.
So that’s because of people’s…
their lack of understanding what actually Krishna consciousness is.
And if they think like that, they really don’t belong in our society.
They should start their own society.
Because otherwise they’re just confusing people.
Prabhupāda, when he was transcendental, he was transcendental in whatever he did.
They may not understand what he was doing, what he was saying,
why he said it or why he did it.
But unless one accepts, just like unless one accepts theoretically
that the Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead,
then there’s no use of studying the Bhagavad Gītā.
The Krishna is Bhagavad Gītā.
So unless we accept Prabhupāda being a pure devotee,
and pure devotee means he was transcendental under all circumstances,
that every word he said, everything he did was perfect.
Now it may not be perfect from the material point of view,
but it may be perfect from the point of view of his service to Kṛṣṇa, his preaching.
For instance, one may make a controversial statement,
which is considered now controversial,
just like Prabhupāda said we didn’t go to the moon.
Usually he said that, he said many things.
But now it’s not as controversial,
although it may have been very controversial back some decades ago.
But now it’s not so controversial.
Still they may say things about women or other things like that.
But unless we see it in context,
then we think that Prabhupāda was seeing things from a mundane platform.
But that’s usually because the person is seeing
probably from a mundane platform.
He’s on the mundane platform.
He doesn’t understand what’s the value of preaching.
Nor does he understand that as conditioned souls
we don’t have a clear perspective of actual reality.
We’ve been conditioned by our so-called authorities
who have just misled us in so many different ways
into the bodily concept of life,
into a materialistic conception of history.
So Prabhupāda may have made statements,
but we have to see them in context.
You know, what he was trying to accomplish by doing it
in terms of helping people become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
And if we take it out of context,
and we start criticizing Prabhupāda being on the mundane platform,
then there’s no reason why one should stay
in the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement
and try to diminish the faith
in our very foundation for our society.
Then they become actually,
instead of helping to build faith in Prabhupāda,
ultimately in our paramparā,
they’re just misdirecting the society.
Trying to misdirect the society.
And inappropriately influencing others,
using their positions of authority
to actually diminish the real authority.
Interviewer: And the concept of founder ācārya,
some may argue, well,
you don’t find that term really mentioned much
in Śrīla Prabhupāda’s books.
So why we should emphasize it so much?
Well, I don’t know.
I don’t know.
I think Bhakti Charu Swami
has found some place in the Ramanujacarya
Sampradaya where they mention founder ācārya.
But the point is,
Prabhupāda’s books are the basis for what he said.
We have to, with intelligence,
and according to time, place and circumstance,
apply them.
We should base our lives,
our teachings, our thoughts,
whatever Prabhupāda was saying in his books.
Ultimately, it’s quite simple.
But we’re very complicated.
We make decisions,
and we have conceptions,
and we do things based upon our conditioned nature,
rather than service to Prabhupāda.
Service to Prabhupāda also means service to those
who are serving Prabhupāda.
But unless we serve Prabhupāda,
then our service to those who are supposedly
serving Prabhupāda won’t be really service.
Yes, of course.
Interviewer: And how would you address any potential,
actual challenges or controversies
surrounding the position of founder ācārya?
PPS:
What is the controversy?
Can you give me an example of a controversy?
Except for the one I just gave you.
Interviewer:There are certain gurus, leaders,
who are not agreeing
about the resolution the G.B.C. took,
considering that the main link
or the preeminent śikṣā guru is Śrīla Prabhupāda.
And they find the dikṣā connection
more important than the śikṣā connection.
PPS: Well, first of all, dikṣā is somebody
who is assistant to śikṣā.
But anyhow, the G.B.C.
would probably establish the authority.
It doesn’t recognize anyone as Mahābhāgavata
that the G.B.C. should listen to.
Therefore, one should take an appropriate position.
And if one doesn’t want to take an appropriate position,
they also don’t.
Really, it shouldn’t be in our society.
Interviewer: You mean to say that the G.B.C.
is the ultimate authority?
PAS: Probably the instructions are the ultimate authority.
The G.B.C. is obliged to try to understand
what those instructions are and to apply them.
So one of the instructions is,
for instance, Prabhupāda writes
in the Nectar of Instruction,
one should not become a guru
unless one has attained the position of Mahābhāgavata.
A neophyte devotee, an intermediate devotee,
can also make disciples.
But such disciples should be on the same level.
It should be understood
that they can’t help their disciples very much
due to their insufficient guidance.
Therefore, one should be careful
to accept an Uttamahādhikārī as one’s spiritual master.
So, if one is claiming to be an Uttamahādhikārī
without the criteria that Prabhupāda mentioned,
that if they accept completely the Bhagavad-Gītā,
that’s in the four paragraphs before that,
that one has understood
that there’s no difference between Kṛṣṇa and His name,
one has realized his spiritual identity,
one has no interest
other than to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness,
such a devotee should be accepted as a Mahābhāgavat
and everything one has should be offered to him.
Brahmacārīs especially, they preach and they go,
they should offer everything to the spiritual master.
But when one is not on the platform of an Uttamahādhikārī
and he imitates an Uttamahādhikārī,
then he’s sure to fall down.
So, if one wants to imitate,
claim that he’s on some high platform
and he doesn’t have the characteristics
that Prabhupāda mentions in Nectar of Devotion,
Nectar of Instruction, or Nectar of Devotion also,
then he’s imitating.
And he’s fallen, so how can he help anyone else?
Because it’s not usually black and white,
devotees also, everyone,
probably everyone connected with Prabhupāda,
in some way or another, repeats his instructions.
But if one imitates, then one imitates a Mahābhāgavata.
He’ll become degraded after some time.
So therefore Prabhupāda writes in the next paragraph,
one should know other people’s positions
and one should know one’s own position.
Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has given us a hint
that one can be known as an Uttamahādhikārī
according to his ability to convert many others
into Vaiṣṇavas.
So it’s not just giving initiation
or some way or another getting a big Bhakti program.
It’s actually changing people’s consciousness,
making them into actual Vaiṣṇavas,
above Brahmins.
Interviewer: you are responsible for certain area in Europe,
you are a GBC?
Yes.
Interviewer: So how do you, within your zone,
try to educate the members and followers
about the significance of the founder,
which are in the context of the organization’s mission and goals?
PPS: I go to the program in the morning,
and in the evening.
And we try to base what we’re doing on Prabhupāda’s instructions.
Interviewer: But you find that everybody within your preaching area
understands this concept?
PPS: Of course.
Interviewer: So there are deviations or misunderstandings?
PPS: No, the whole society is based upon misconceptions
at the present moment.
There are so many varieties of misconceptions.
Interviewer: So how we would be able, what could we do to…
PPS: To become a pure devotee.
In other words, we’ll have some potency.
What else can we do?
Set an example, the best we can,
and then hope Krishna will give us the realization
that the words we say will actually have some meaning to people.
Talk to Krishna.
Interviewer: And in the sense of a collective endeavor,
in cooperation with the temple president?
PPS: Explain things, the best I can,
and then see if someone wants to follow.
We have a program where we follow Prabhupāda’s instructions.
And we have in Ljubljana,
we have a saṅkāpa, sun and a saṅkāpa.
We’ve had that for the last month.
More than that, actually.
It’s the third one we’re doing.
So there we all keep records about our attendance to the program,
when we get up, when we go to sleep,
what programs we attend,
how much reading we’re doing, etc., etc.
Interviewer: And how many devotees are within that?
PPS: Around 20.
And then we’ll expand it to the congregation of devotees.
In Ukraine, they have 4,000 doing that.
Interviewer: That’s quite a lot of devotees who are attend
And there is statistics?
PPS: Well, in us, there’s a gradual improvement of the devotees’ attendance.
And they’re reading the books and everything.
So that’s what we want to do,
is concentrate our mind on the five powerful processes.
Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-Gītā,
worshipping the deities,
serving the devotees and making the atmosphere spiritual,
and preaching.
We want to concentrate on those things.
And then we’ll become…
By following Prabhupāda’s instructions and doing that,
then we’ll get the happy result of becoming conscious of Kṛṣṇa.
Then our faith in Kṛṣṇa and in Prabhupāda will increase.
Interviewer: It’s very clear.
PPS: It’s just straight from Śrīla Prabhupāda’s books.
Interviewer: So we don’t need to be very innovative.
PPS: We can just follow Śrīla Prabhupāda’s books,
how Prabhupāda wanted it, and that’s it.
It’s not some new ideas,
or how to improve,
or how to just follow the basic program,
and from there on things will evolve.
We become Kṛṣṇa conscious, which is our goal.
Prabhupāda once wrote to me, he said,
I don’t want money, I don’t want buildings,
I don’t want any of these things.
I just want to see that my books are being distributed.
And because they’re doing that, I’m pleased.
We can transcend our knowledge and distribute it to others.
And Kṛṣṇa is pleased, our ācārya is pleased,
and we’ll become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
They’ll reveal themselves to us.
Interviewer: And the relationship between the disciple and the guru,
and the relationship between the disciple and Śrīla Prabhupāda,
you think it can be harmonious, or there can be conflict?
Then it’s not Kṛṣṇa conscious, it’s not harmonious.
If it’s not harmonious, it’s not Kṛṣṇa conscious?
Of course not, it’s māyā.
There’s only one spiritual master, ultimately,
it’s the Supersoul in everyone’s heart.
And everyone’s a media fan to different degrees.
And Prabhupāda’s a perfect media,
which I believe he was.
Then, anyone who’s following him,
who’s following him, how can there be any conflict?
It’s the same Supersoul giving him the intelligence what to do,
as it was giving Prabhupāda what to do.
Interviewer: okay, if you say you can follow Prabhupāda,
you can follow also Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura.
PPS: Yeah, you are following Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura,
you’re following all the ācāryas when you follow Prabhupāda.
Thank you very much, Marans.
I hope this interview was to your pleasing.
Yes, very nice.
Thank you very much.
Keep up the good work.
Thank you.
Hare Kṛṣṇa.